#ragnell: i know
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Hi! Arthurian legend is one of my favorite subjects but I have trouble figuring out which books to read. Do you have any suggestions?
hi!! here's a couple of popular texts which i'd recommend to start with:
sir gawain and the green knight
culhwch and olwen
lanval
the perilous cemetery/l'atre perilleux (for prime gawain antics)
any chretien de troyes
the vulgate cycle (personally i skipped past the history of the holy grail when starting since it's very long and doesnt really have a lot of the more famous characters and events)
any gerald morris books (he does retellings aimed at children but they're very very funny and very enjoyable even when you're not a child)
i feel like i have to suggest malory's le morte d'arthur because it's le morte d'arthur and a lot of later stuff is based on it but to be honest a lot of it is not that great. book 7 specifically is my favourite section and i would definitely recommend it!!
these are just my personal recommendation for starting out as they're very popular ones and in my opinion quite accessible since they're the ones i started with (and the first four are quite short)
i would definitely suggest also looking at @queer-ragnelle's medieval literature list for links to a lot of different texts including the ones i've mentioned!!
#there are quite a few intro to arthuriana posts floating around so i would also take a look at those!!#i speedran this let me know if you want some less well known recs!!!#the texts i suggested are maybe a little bit basic but theyre popular because they're good#also i havent read a lot of retellings but im pretty sure queer-ragnelle also has retellings on their blog#arthuriana#asks#thanks for asking!!!!! i hope you enjoy these
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i can't stop thinking how funny it would be if gareth's brothers did in fact recognise him and were just like 'well clearly he has his reasons so let's all be good big bros and pretend we don't know him' and then spend the next few weeks before he goes off on his quest pretending extremely badly that they have never ever met this kitchen boy before nope not at all even while other knights are looking at them and looking at gareth and going 'hmmm'
#gawain can't resist giving weird brotherly pep talks every time he passes him like 'keep up the good work kid! we're all rooting for you!'#and then turns to ragnelle to whisper loudly 'that was ok that was normal and convincing right' while she rolls her eyes#gaheris bumps into him in a corridor and startles like a deer and is like 'hahaha random kitchen boy i certainly have never met before what#fine weather we are having in these parts hahaha i shall be leaving now through the door over there good bye' and then#walks into a broom cupboard and has to awkwardly back out again while gareth stands there#holding a broom that he was just about to put back in the broom cupboard#agravaine nearly manages to pass by without incident while gareth is scrubbing floors but at the last second brotherly instinct takes over#and he kicks the bucket of suds over yelling 'you missed a spot dickwad!' before sprinting away#gareth is just 'wow my brothers are bigger freaks and weirdos than i remember i don't want to be associated with these losers'#meanwhile arthur is like 'kay can you please just tell them all that you know who he is because i cannot take this farce much longer'#kay: ... oh so now im not allowed to have fun am i? fucking tyrant
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🧸 for ya bestie Ragnelle
🧸Headcanon about childhood
Ragnelle is 10 years older than her brother Gromer. Since their parents died, he’s her little guy. Her little shadow. It’s like Agravaine and Mordred but way healthier.
#arthurian legend#arthurian legends#arthurian mythology#arthuriana#arthurian literature#dame ragnelle#lady ragnelle#ragnelle#ask#ask game#badsalmonella#I cover her childhood in detail in my books so I know it inside & out & hope everyone enjoys it<3
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i should draw ike & sonic posing together one day actually.
#blue dudes w/ swords.#i know thats a lot of fire emblem characters but ike’s the first one that came to mind#sonic w/ ragnell. ike with caliburn/excalibur#there’s a vision here. posting the idea here bc this is the acct i’m logged into
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Arthurian non fiction recommendation list
I don't talk much about non fiction arthuriana because I usually don't read much of it but I have an immense love for some specific arthurian non fiction books.
I am not really interested in historical Arthur, but I love to see the evolution and addition of arthurian elements in literautre through time and space. For this reason, my absolute favorite is the series "The Arthur of the..."
Here are some:
Arthur of the Welsh (the one I always take with me! It has information of the triads, early Welsh texts and poems, Culhwch and Olwen and the Mabinogion arthurian texts)
Arthur of the French (in particular has a section about Arthur in modern French movies and fiction!)
Arthur of the Italians (this I did not check as I read the texts in Italian, but I know it has information on the Rustichello da Pisa text, the Tavola Ritonda and i Cantari, the ones with Gaia as a character)
Arthur of the Low Countries (one of my favorite because it has full summaries of some Dutch texts that are impossible to find in English like Walewein, Moriaen, Walewein ende Keye, Roel Zemel)
Arthur of the North (has some summaries of some really hard to find stuff arthurian like Ívens saga, Erex saga, Parcevals saga, various Nordic ballads, Hærra Ivan Leons riddare)
Arthur of the Germans (another good one! It has info on a bunch of German texts that are hard to find like Wigamur, various fragments, Tristan traditions)
Arthur of Medieval Latin literature (for the older stuff, like Geoffrey of Monmouth, Nennius and Life of Saints)
Arthur of the English (if you are really into Malory)
Arthur of the Iberians (I have not fully delved into this, but the chapters seem to be about the reception of arthurian matter in Spain and Portugal)
Basically, different authors tackle the arthurian traditions (more or less obscure) from different areas and time periods.
In general, if you like Welsh arthuriana anything written by Rachel Bromwich will be your friend, especially "Trioedd Ynys Prydein: The Triads of the Island of Britain".
For general information:
The Arthurian Name Dictionary (Bruce) - this used to be online, not anymore, but you can still access it through the archive here
The Arthurian companion (Phyllis Ann Karr)
The Oxford Guide to Arthurian Literature and Legend (Alan Lupack)
The Arthurian Encyclopedia (Lacy)
The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Arthurian Legends (Coghlan)
If you are looking for more translated texts you can check here for free downloads, but if you would like books, here are some:
The Romance of Arthur: An Anthology of Medieval Texts in Translation (Wilhelm)
This book contains translations of:
Culhwch and Olwen Roman de Brut Brut Some Chretien de Troyes Some Parzival excerpts The saga of the mantle Beroul's Romance of Tristan Thomas of Britain's Romance of Tristan Lanval The Honeysuckle Cantare on the Death of Tristan Suite du Merlin Prose Merlin Sir Gawain and the Green Knight The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle De ortu Waluuanii nepotis Arthuri
The Book of Arthur: Lost Tales From the Round Table (Matthews John)
This book contains translations of:
(Celtic Tales) The Life of Merlin The Madness of Tristan The Adventures of the Eagle Boy The Adventures of Melora and Orlando The Story of the Crop-eared dog Visit of the Grey Ham The Story of Lanval
(Tales of Gawain) The rise of Gawain Gawain and the Carl of Carlisle The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle The adventures of Tarn Wathelyn The Mule without a bridle The knight of the Sword Gorlagros and Gawain
(Medieval texts) The knight of the parrot The vows of King Arthur and his Knights The fair unknown Arthur and Gorlagon Guingamor and Guerrehes The story of Meriadoc The story of Grisandole The Story of Perceval Sir Cleges The Boy and the Mantle The lay of Tyolet Jaufre The story of Lanzalet And some final notes
#lancelot#arthurian legend#camelot#king arthur#recs#arthurian non fiction#essays#non fiction#arthur of the#favs#rec#books#resources#resource
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Ohhhh I love them!!! I don’t have old Hollywood suggestions but…
Ragnelle: Medalion Rahimi
Laurel: Golshifteh Farahani
Lynette: Sujaya Dasgupta
Lyonesse: Amita Suman
Wives of the Orkney Brothers: Old Hollywood Edition
Dame Ragnelle: Lauren Bacall
Lady Laurel: Merle Oberon
Lady Lyonesse: Olivia De Haviland
Lady Lynette: Myrna Loy
St. Cwyllog: Audrey Hepburn
#arthurian legend#dame ragnelle#lady ragnelle#lady laurel#lady lynette#lady lyonesse#fancast#they gotta have the right vibes you know…….#I also like Olivia Cooke for Laurel but she’s too pale#actor has to have resting sad face lol#I haven’t drawn Lynette & Lyonesse in YEARS I should do that#I’m just so Ragnelle & Laurel focused…..I wuv them#anyways thanks for tagging me
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Morgan Le Fay
I've never seen anyone drawing Morgane with short hair, but I think it might be an interesting interpretation of her. I like the idea that magicians are people who erase gender because of thousands of magical transformations that they do. And so I tried to make her more fae-rish and wild? I love the vibe of royal mystical queen Morgane Le Fay, but I also love the idea of wild witch who has a connection with ancient gods, and she knows so much more than you can imagine.
@queer-ragnelle May Day Parade (I hope I'm still allowed to finish this challenge)
#arthurian legend#arthurian mythology#arthuriana#arthurian legends#morgan le fay#morgane Le fay#morgane#my art#may day parade
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Heyy, I'm starting to get interested in reading the Arthurian Legend/Story/Mith (?), and I was just wondering if you have any reccomendations on where to start with what books? I hope you have a nice day, Take care!
Oh thanks for the ask. I can only half answer this? I'm much better with my Greek myths. I've read a fair number of arthuriana texts but there are so many arthuriana blogs on here that faaar outmatch me with regards to the texts they've read.
I would personally start with Gawain and the Green Knight, I think it's a great entry point and one of the strongest texts in arthuriana. If you enjoy that one I think you're pretty much green lit to continue on.
Then it's a bit of a question what you want to do?
If you want an oversight of the "plot" of Arthuriana (ie. the rise and downfall of Camelot, from Arthur's conception to his death) you either want to start with the Vulgate Cycle (long but well written, the translation by Norris Lacy is recommended) or Le Morte D'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory (based on the Vulgate Cycle, it's shorter but still long, and worse written, but definitely the basis for later/modern arthuriana). These are inaccesible bricks of reading material, I'm still slogging through Le Morte, two years later. But they're pretty much the bedrocks at the bottom of our modern arthuriana "canon" (no such thing but you know what I mean) so :///
If you want more readable later adaptations that cemented our modern arthuriana "canon", you either want Alfred Lord Tennyson's Idylls of the King or The Once and Future King by TH White.
If you want to keep reading short stories set in the Arthuriana world I recommend by personal favorite, the Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. I've also been highly recommended The Knight of the Cart by Chretien de Troyes, the introduction of Lancelot and his affair with Guinevere. Courtly love!!!
But here I defer to @queer-ragnelle they can definitely give you a better answer.
Good luck!
#this doesnt even touch on modern classics like a connecticut yankee in king arthurs court#too many texts!!!#answered.liridi
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Like a lot of people I sometimes ponder what my favorite characters might look like if they were allowed to grow older. I've been seeing a lot of good designs for older Soren specifically so of course I got to thinkin' about my own take!
Some notes on design process under the cut cause I think we should all share our thought process once in a while:
So, for this I didn't want to just want to go with "Soren, exactly the same but older". My thought was "if I was actually in charge of designing for a fire emblem game, one that takes place in a future Tellius perhaps and featuring this character as a guest (a la Tiki or the Awakening trio, which they should keep doing BTW) how would I go about doing that".
You have to think of course, about what the character is actually doing and what their role is. It seems pretty likely that after RD Soren is either traveling the world with Ike or wandering around (probably the former) so "traveler" was the theme. As far as the overall shape and the outer layer especially it seemed obvious to reference the dragons, who are also travelers:
I don't want to just straight up copy the look of the robes though for a couple of reasons. 1) that's boring and the idea here is for an updated visual style 2) I wanted to combine different elements to evoke a feeling of mixing cultures. I figure if this scenario takes place say, 80 years in the future or something, fashions will have moved forward and perhaps you would see elements of beorc and laguz fashions mixed together. Especially for Soren given what he is. So I went with an inner layer that looks more Victorian puffy sleeves (which you don't actually see a lot of in PoR or RD since the characters favor more stiff looking tunics, but they are there and I figured its the future and maybe Crimea has entered its puffy shirt era) with the outer layer looking more like what the dragons wear. 3) Staying with robes seems kind of stagnant. I imagine that a much older Soren who's lived a good life along side his love has probably chilled out a little bit. A little bit. 4) I think having more leg visible gives a more adult silhouette.
The other consideration is the hairstyle. As much as I love Soren being a carbon copy of Rajaion, it wouldn't be the most interesting design choice if I was the character designer of a game to just copy a past design 1 for 1. So I decided to just lengthen his hair a little bit and give it a look like its been blown around in the wind. Soren is the windy guy and I'm assuming he would be more chill here so why not let it be loose and free? This also helps avoid him just looking like Sephiran cause I see that a lot too lol.
Yes I also changed the shape of his brand. I've always been fascinated by the fact that it changed shape between games. I know it was likely just a design oversight but what if it changed because he isn't an adult yet and it changes more as he ages?
Lastly there's the why. Why would your fav show up as a guest character? What would he even do?? Well I think Soren could be really fun actually if we assume he went with Ike and that Ike kept Ragnell with him. I'm picturing a situation where Ike has lived out his natural life and died, leaving Soren to return to Tellius alone in order to tell Mist's family what happened (cause Ike just left without telling anyone anything lol), and to return Ragnell to them. Instead some conflict breaks out, you know how it is, and the more chilled out Soren is convinced to bestow the sword onto the new starry-eyed lord who reminds him of his beloved.
Oh yeah. I can see it now.
#did I waste time thinking about this? Yes#no regrets cause I can alter this design and use it for my own stuff later#fire emblem#tellius#soren#au#ideas and theories#character design#saying I want to see my favs age but then this one has just barely aged at all#dang dragons#let soren be an adult#future tellius au
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How loathly is the lady
The motif of the loathly lady shows up primarily in (Celtic and English) Medieval saga's and Romances and it typically involves a knight or warrior who is confronted by a physically repulsive woman and shows her hospitality (The Daughter Of King Under-Waves; The Saga of Hrolf Kraki), agrees to kiss/embrace her (The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon), or agrees to marry her (The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle; The Marriage of Sir Gawain; The Wife of Bath's Tale). When this respect is shown, the loathly lady transforms into a beautiful one, sometimes this takes a further proof that the knight is willing to let her decide about herself instead of imposing his will on her.
But to my surprise I recently learned that the Scottish ballad King Henry (Child ballad 32) is also considered a Loathly Lady tale. This lady does a whole lot more than require respect, however:
In "King Henry", the king spends the night in a haunted hall during a hunting trip, and meets a lady who seems like she is no less than "a fiend that comes from hell". In a way, she does ask for hospitality, but she does it by demanding that King Henry let her eat his horse, his greyhounds and his goshawks. Which hurts him a great deal. Finally she tells him to make her a bed out of heather, lie down with her and take her for his bride. He complies with heavy heart, but in the morning he wakes to find the fairest lady he has ever seen lying beside him, who tells him: . “I’ve met with many a gentle knight That gave me such a fill, But never before with a courteous knight That gave me all my will.”
This behaviour is quite a bit more on the monstrous side, from where I'm standing. Especially since the king does not know the loathly lady. It would make more sense to put him through such terrible trials if he was atoning to win a lover back.
Interestingly, this story does share some notable elements with The Daughter of the King Under-Waves, where there really is an element of atonement. In that tale the hero Diarmaid wins his lady with hospitality, but loses her after they are married, by breaking his promise to never bring up how repulsive she looked when he met her. He brings it up in anger when she gives his greyhound's puppies away. When he loses his supernatural wife, his beloved greyhound also dies. When he goes to find his wife, he finds she is suffering from an illness and can only sleep on a bed of rushes. He manages to cure her, but in the process falls out of love with her. She accepts this, because they are from different worlds and cannot live together. In some versions her last gift to him is restoring his greyhound to life.
Irish folk singer Tom Reid wrote some fitting extra verses to finish the ballad of King Henry: the lady tells the king to bring his horse, hounds and hawks' skins and feathers and then brings them all back to life before they marry.
I haven't been able to find a recording of that one but The Furrow Collective and Matt Williams both have nice renditions of this ballad. But my favourite is actually a German version by Faun called Herr Heinerich, which subtly changes the lady's ending speech to:
Many a knight I caught myself Yet none have acted right You are the first to sleep with me All the blessed night
#ballad#folk ballad#celtic folklore#scottish folklore#king henry#herr heinerich#ballads#laura babbles#in a most rambling way
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hi anon again and no you didn't bore me at ALL!! i loved hearing about the welsh arthurian mythos and i want to know more. please tell me where i can read about them and tell me interesting facts you like about it!!!!!!!!
Anon, I am hugging u. Thank u for saying I didn't bore u!!! So glad u liked my mad ramblings!!!
Okay, so The Mabinogion is probably a good place to start. It contains four branches of Welsh mythology which sorta ties into Welsh Arthuriana because some of the gods (Manawydan, Pryderi, Gwyn ap Nudd, Mabon ap Modron, Bendigeidfran's head.) pop up in both. Also, it contains Culhwch and Olwen which is a tale concerning Arthur's cousin Culhwch going on a quest with Arthur and his knights so he can marry Ysbaddaden Pencawr's daughter, Olwen. It's believed to be the earliest-written Arthurian romance preserved in manuscripts. It also contains three other Arthurian romances which are either Welsh tales that have been adapted by De Troyes and then back into Welsh but with a twist, or just based on French romance tales that have been repressed for the Welsh. (Idk really know which one is true but they're all fun!!!)
There's also the tales of Lludd and Llefelys (a personal fave.), The Dream of Rhonabwy (a fictional dream containing Arthurian characters but also actually REAL LIFE Welsh ruler Madog ap Maredudd.), AND The Dream of Macsen Wledig which is essentially one man's quest to bonk a hot lady in Caernarfon. (Tbf, Macsen Wledig is somewhat of an Arthurian figure in his own right cuz he too is seen as a Mab Darogan (prophecised son) in Welsh Culture because he united the Welsh under one banner, and then died, and then Wales immediately split into kingdoms again.)
You can either access Charlotte Guest's translation which I am sure @queer-ragnelle has scanned, or Sioned Davies' new translation which has handy dandy footnotes and such.
There's also Gwyn Jones and Thomas Jones translation which uses a lot of the medieval language but was also made into a beautifully illustrated book by Alan Lee (An illustrator who is famous for LOTR illustrations). Jeffrey Gantz's edition is, I think, the most recently published edition but you can tear Sioned Davies from my COLD DEAD HANDS. Or, if you like poetry, one of my old English lit lecturers, Matthew Francis, has done a poetry version of the four branches! It's amazing!!!!
Also, Naxos has an audiobook version read by Matt Addis which uses Guest's translation but is good for listening to. I love it.
(You'll also want Trystan ac Essyllt, 'The Triads of Britain' and 'The Arthur of the Welsh' which are written by Rachel Bromwich, and I recommend O.J. Padel's 'Arthur in Medieval Welsh Literature' for more on how he's portrayed through that. And if you like modern re-tellings Seren Books has a box set of them! Each one is a re-telling of each branch of the Mabinogi, Culhwch and Olwen, the three romances, and the others. Very fun!)
Now in terms of my favourite things: Peredur being Urien's first cousin irl made me be like WHAT? Like, they're SO interconnected it's MADNESS. Urien, Owain, and Peredur are all related. Also, the fact that Welsh Arthuriana has swallowed up eight irl monarchs (Edern ap Nudd, Cunedda, Owain, Urien, Geraint, Peredur, Macsen Wledig, Cynon ap Clydno (Owain's sister, Morfudd's, lover), and Cynyr Ceinfarfog (Cai's dad), one poetic genius (Taliesin - who wrote about Urien as it goes!!! BTW read the tale of Taliesin. Sjdddkxk. The Jones and Jones translation has it, the Davies translation of the Mabinogi does not.), Emrys Wyllt who was the inspiration for Merlin, and sixty-seven thousand gods, as well as a few saints.
My favourite fact about Welsh Arthuriana is probably that Gwalchmai and Peredur probs had a relationship, Arthur is canonically in love with his boat, Cai literally says 'if u held my dick like that I'd die.' in Culhwch and Olwen, and Gwenhwyfar's a fuckin GIANTESS. 😍😍😍😍 I have many more facts but like I don't want to clutter the feed!!!!!
Hope my rambles were helpful in some way! Have a good day/night, anon! ☺️🧡
#anon ask#anon ur super nice djdjdkd#arthuriana#welsh mythology#mabinogion#the mabinogion#welsh myth#y mabinogi#the mabinogi#arthurian legend#arthurian mythology#oh fuck also the mab is a good book rec too! its a modern retelling and its targeted for kids but michael sheen does the foreword!#its SO FUN#the third branch is written from Cigfa's perspective and it SLAPS#king arthur#arthur pendragon#merlin#queen guinevere#owain ap urien#urien rheged#taliesin#sir kay#the four branches of the mabinogi#charlotte guest#welsh folklore#welsh legends#arthurian literature#arthurian legends
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Tumblr's May Day Parade 2024!
Calling all Arthurian creators!
This May 2024 let's celebrate Arthurian Legend in all its bloody spring time glory with our unique creations and contributions to this ongoing tradition. Artforms of every variety welcome and encouraged. The May-themed prompts are...
May 1-5: Morbid Month of May {May King Mordred}
“Know that he will be born the first day of May in the kingdom of Logres.” —Post Vulgate
May 6-10: Queenly Month of May {May Queen Guinevere}
“Seeing it now, this crown of swords...Guinevere is the only one who knew where it was.” —Alliterative Morte
May 11-16: Lusty Month of May {Free Space/Flower Festival}
“Tra la! It's May! The lusty month of May! That lovely month when ev'ryone goes Blissfully astray.” —Camelot Musical
May 17-21: Grumpy Month of Kay {Seneschal Celebration}
“Sir Kay, the Seneschal. Is that your name?...Now wit ye well that ye are named the shamefullest knight of your tongue that now is living.” —Le Morte d'Arthur
May 22-26: May le Fay {The Anti-Queen Morgan}
“Now come forward and see a king's daughter wield a sword.” —Post Vulgate
May 27-31: May Day Melee {Violence is Romance Enacted in Blood}
“A melee quickly ensued in which a large number of knights took part; spearheads and broken shafts soon covered the ground.” —The Crown
✧✧✧
Rules: Each prompt allows 5 days except for free/flowers which is 6 days. All mediums accepted: Illustrations, paintings, writing, music, videos, gifsets, webweaves etc. No AI generated content.
Remember to tag #May Day Parade and @queer-ragnelle so I can reblog your creations! If you have any questions feel free to ask. :^) Good luck!
#arthurian legend#arthurian legends#arthuriana#arthurian mythology#arthurian literature#sir mordred#queen guinevere#sir kay#morgan le fay#may day parade#my post
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Lancelot is actually the character I fail to understand and like the most, because it's either the writers love being inconsistent with him or he just doesn't strike me as anything interesting. His relationships are really hard to decipher too. He's devotedly in love with Guinevere and was made specifically for her, but the next — Gawain is mentioned as being the man he loves most? Even though Gawain is married to Ragnelle?? Do all these characters just get multiple/different love interests whenever the authors feel like it? That whole ring retcon, the relationship he has with Arthur that I can't even begin to comprehend, everything about him is so confusing to me lol. But that's not to discourage anyone who likes him. Would love some insight in case I'm wrong about him or about his relationships. I guess I just want an answer as to who this guy loves, and why he was suddenly made into Arthur's buddy buddy when they haven't shared a single adventure together.
To put it concisely, Lancelot's a character who started off with a simple premise (Courtly Love/Fin Amor) but because of that premise (and cultural milieu of the time), he became massively popular as a result.
And with that Popularity, came in more writers who wanted to take a crack at this new-fangled hero and his deal. And with new writers came new ideas and plots and characters; and before you know it, Lancelot's overtaken the mythos and Lancelot's character has been skewed left and right depending on who's writing him. (Comparisons to Comic book Superheroes have been made)
The various inconsistencies throughout the stories you see, posted here or read elsewhere, are the result of multiple writers tying together numerous, contradictory narrative lines to create a "canon" of sorts, much like the modern idea of a shared universe.
To breakdown your ask
Lancelot's relationship with Guinevere is different from his relationship with other characters - Gawain is stated to be "the Man Lancelot Loves the Most" but that's really from a platonic, heteronormative deep friendship-type POV (remember, as Christian Medieval stories, actual Gay Love is... y'know...). And this relationship, however significant, is ultimately subordinate to Lancelot's love for Guinevere. If given a choice, Lancelot would (painfully) choose Guinevere over Gawain and Galehaut 100% of the time.
Lancelot and Guinevere's relationship is what we modern viewers would perceive as an actual romantic couple, but there IS a Physical aspect to this. Lancelot and Guinevere relationship is really meant to be Sexual and Erotic. (So don't believe anyone online that says Courtly Love is chaste. It most certainly is not)
Lancelot and Arthur being made buddy-buddy in Later and Modern stories is more-or-less based on the assumption that "Strongest and Bestest Knight = Close Relationship with the King". Many later writers, starting with Malory, presume that as the Greatest Knight of the Round Table, Lancelot has to be Arthur's most cherished comrade and brother-in-arms, right? Having seen through many challenges and hurdles together, Lancelot had to be a good friend to serve Arthur faithfully? Right?
What doesn't help matters is that Le Morte D'Arthur (and its source materials) is an abridged version of the older narratives, skipping over many story arcs and missing many critical plots points that only now we - in the Social Media era - are just beginning to realize. As a result, many prospective writers before were left scrambling to fill-in-the-blanks and details not covered by popular retellings, and as a result, older nuances got lost and assumptions are made.
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breaking down Edward III's Arthuriana obsession (with @queer-ragnelle and me @lefresne ): Things We Discovered Which We Certainly Did Not Know Before.
First, something we did know: Edward's third son is named Lionel - this is kind of an unusual name for a prince which suggests this might have been a name that Edward particularly liked. Edward is kind of famous for being an Arthurian enthusiast so it is likely that Lionel was named after THE Lionel, cousin of Lancelot. We did some research, more stuff emerged including:
When Edward was fifteen he seems to have made an order of multiple tunics for his squires and for himself in order to 'play the game of Cradok'. This 'game' (I speculate) is a 'jeu', a medieval play, based on the story of Caradoc (from the First Continuation, which Isabella owned according to an inventory) and the Lay of the Cort Mantel - a story in which a mantle is sent to the Arthurian court that shrinks when an unfaithful woman tries it on. NOW Edward was still under the tutelage of his mother Isabella and her lover Roger Mortimer at this time and the idea that Edward might have staged this as an angsty dig against his mother and her lover is frankly hilarious.
Roger Mortimer (Isabella's lover) gifted Edward a cup decorated with the arms of Lancelot and Lionel. Lionel was Edward's favourite knight.
Edward would ride in tournaments dressed as either lancelot or Lionel.
He wanted to establish an order of the Round Table and seems to have had a table built, as well as begun work on a circular room to house it but the plans never came to fruition. The Order of the Garter, symbolised by a circular girdle, might have been a nod to other Arthurian chivalric orders.
Staged an arthurian joust in front of the captured king of France Jean II and made some of the captured French and Scottish knights compete. Tried to buy back one of his crowns he pawned earlier from the germans to impress Jean II.
this visiting Italian nobleman described all this but the main takeaway is how cringe he found all of it.
#based on me going on a brief research binge and reading a couple book chapters#NOT an expert I just found this very funny#el.txt
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A very, very roughly sketched, unedited scene that wouldn't leave me alone this morning and demanded to be written (....oh hey @queer-ragnelle! I accidentally made a Lusty Month of May / May Day Parade contribution!):
The week they arrive at Sorelois. Perhaps even the day. Guinevere is half-mad with rage and grief, reeling from Arthur's betrayal, the loss of her marriage, of her court. It's the usurping of her entire life.
It makes her bold. It makes her want to be cruel. It makes her want to strike back or to take what she wants or to rebel in some small or large way. It makes her want to hurt Arthur in turn, or transgress since she has already been spurned from society and convicted for something for which she's innocent.
"There is something I wish to see," Guinevere says, there in the somber quiet of the receiving room with Lancelot, Galehaut, and Lady Bloie of Malehaut. An announcement to the air, undirected.
Lancelot responds first, of course, as expected. He kneels before her, the picture of earnest devotion. "Whatever you wish, my queen, I will strive my utmost to bring it to you."
Across the room, towering nigh to the ceiling even leaned against the wall as he is, Galehaut watches her with a carefully neutral expression. Unblinking, unsmiling, and there's the barest tightening around his eyes. He is wary of her still, and senses her mood.
The Lady of Malehaut is a different kind of unreadable entirely, lounging next to her with a spot of embroidery to keep her clever hands busy. Her full mouth is always a breath away from smiling, like she carries with her a trove of private amusements at all times. She observes from beneath half-lidded eyes, her needle flashing through cloth more by touch than sight.
Guinevere lifts her loyal knight's chin with a touch of her finger. His lips part, eyes wide and wondering. She smiles. "I want to you to give Galehaut a kiss."
Ah, if only she dared to watch Galehaut's expression in that moment! Yet she must keep her focus on Lancelot. His face pales. His breath catches in his throat. His pulse thrums against her finger like a trapped and frantic bird. "M-my queen?" he stammers, gaze darting side to side as if for an escape.
Her smile sharpens, serpentine. "Do you not wish to?"
"I— I am not—" He's breathing rapid and shallow now, on the edge of panic. It's a pretty quandary she's put him in, one with no known safe answer, and he's reeling under it.
(She feels more steady by the moment, her control re-establishing in the small sphere she still possesses.)
Galehaut steps forward. There's the edge of fury in his warning, in the creak of leather and the rattle of maille. "My lady," he rumbles.
Now Guinevere looks his way, and she lifts a graceful eyebrow at the storm in his countenance. Lancelot quivers beneath her touch, unmoored by the loss of her pinning gaze. "Will you tell me truly that you don't want this, Galehaut?"
He halts. His jaw works; the stormclouds thicken. He glares, proud and silent.
Guinevere laughs. It's a free, bell-like sound—as playful as a day a-Maying. Lancelot stills and his breathing steadies, soothed by her apparent merriment. She makes a show of taking pity on him, releasing his chin to stroke his cheek. "Do you wish to kiss me?" she murmurs, leaning closer.
His breath catches again, no different than before. He nods.
She kisses him, sweet and soft; he returns it with a small desperate sound against her lips. (It tastes like power.) He's breathless when she pulls away, and she smiles down at him, indulgent. "I know Galehaut desires a kiss from you as well," she says, "and he is the one who brought us together, yes?"
Another nod, and Lancelot seems more dazed than panicked now. Swaying towards her, and glancing shyly towards his boon companion, who draws a sharp bracing breath.
"It is not as if he's a lady," she says with a wink. "So it is not being untrue to me. And it is my request, is it not?"
"Y—yes, my lady...?"
"Do you not want to kiss him?"
"I..." Those expressive eyes flicker from her lips to Galehaut's and back again. His breath quickens again, but this time it is a little less panicked. "My lady, you ask hard questions," he says at last, helplessly.
She laughs again, darkened with satisfaction. "Kiss him, then," she commands, "and then tell me if you want to do it again."
"My lady," protests Galehaut, strained—oh, and there is longing so sharp that it is agonized, bare and naked in every rigid muscle and the aching furrow of his brow. He looks at Lancelot like a man starving. He looks at Guinevere like a man betrayed.
To give Galehaut what he so desperately desires, when he knows it is something she can take away at any moment? To receive a kiss from his Lancelot, but only on the order of Lancelot's lover-queen? For Galehaut to touch his companion in the way he desires, but only so long as Guinevere allows it, never knowing truly if Lancelot would have initiated on his own, never being certain of Lancelot's desire?
It's a power like none she's ever wielded before.
Lancelot stumbles to Galehaut on unsteady legs with a last hesitant glance over his shoulder. Guinevere smiles encouragingly and nods her approval. One last nudge—and still, Galehaut could refuse Lancelot. Galehaut is sworn to neither Guinevere nor Arthur; he needs not obey her. Galehaut could save the last unconquered edges of his heart and maintain this last barrier of distance. He could still refuse himself what he wants so badly.
Galehaut tenses, and Galehaut wavers, and Galehaut's heaves great draughts of air as if he's in the thick of a melee.
Lancelot reaches out, and Galehaut surrenders.
#I guess I'm writing a Sorelois quartet fic eventually#I have so many higher priority projects right now#why brain why#this is not what I want to focus on#but there's more in a sketch of an outline already#ughhhhh#the lady of malehaut's involved too#I ship her with Guinevere so hard#they've already been kissing for a while of course#guinevere doesn't think anything of it#not sure what Lancelot's going to think when he learns it though#there's nothing healthy about any part of this dynamic#that's what makes it fun#guinevere#lancelot#galehaut#lady of malehaut#sorelois#arthuriana#arthurian fanfic#my writing#sorelois quartet#WAIT#THIS COUNTS FOR LUSTY MONTH OF MAY#lusty month of may#it absolutely counts#I was participating without even realizing#may day parade#queenly month of may#writing
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hi not to be a menace but. what texts do you recommend starting on for delving into the arthurian lore bc i’ve read sgatgk and the mabinogion and listened to the heather dale songs and have no idea where to go from here
Okay I have a bunch in my pinned post but in summary: It depends on what you are interested in! If you are interested in characters like Lancelot, Guinevere, Yvain, Gawain, Percival etc, I would recommend reading Chretien de Troyes romances, specifically Knight of the Lion, Knight of the Cart, and Story of the Grail, which are his best and more relevant to later texts. If you are more interested in the overall story, the rise of arthur and fall of camelot, the classic choice is Thomas Malory's le morte d'arthur. there are a lot of translations and shortened versions that are quite readable if ur not into middle english.
there are lots of fun and fairly findable epigonal romances (french romances written after chretien de troyes) and middle english verse works (sgatgk is the most famous of these, but sir gawain and the turk, the alliterative morte d'arthur, the stanzaic morte d'arthur, and the wedding of sir gawain and dame ragnelle are all fun). great epigonal romances include the perilous cemetery, the mule without a bridle, and the knight with two swords.
the dutch corpus of arthuriana is also great, you cant go wrong with morien, and i also recommend lancelot and the hart with the white foot and the roman van walewein. i have links to scans of most of everything i've mentioned here so if you can't find something let me know and i'll see if i can find it scanned by me or one of my friends.
i hope this brain dump was helpful! but yeah basically there are lots and lots of fun text options for you so just check out what sounds interesting! theres a ton of works i didnt name here so if none of these sound interesting then let me know and i can offer other suggestions. if u want some stuff more like the heather dale stuff, you might like victorian arthuriana! i have links to my favourite arthurian revival works in my pinned post. good luck!!
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